Wagon Steering box

[DaveyC]

Ah, so perhaps the steering box was not broken, but poached for something else?

Terry mentioned about the axle internals being replaced, but I'm not sure he knew why or what with. Somebody told me that Tom had tried to make it faster, which fits in with a ratio change I suppose, however, it may be more likely that the yorkshire item was all he could lay his hands on at the time!

I never met Tom, but he sounds like quite a character.

So in the scrapyard picture in the other thread, is the chassis already cut? seems reasonably long, but hard to tell.

[M_Walters]

Originally Posted by DaveyC

Ah, so perhaps the steering box was not broken, but poached for something else?

Terry mentioned about the axle internals being replaced, but I'm not sure he knew why or what with. Somebody told me that Tom had tried to make it faster, which fits in with a ratio change I suppose, however, it may be more likely that the yorkshire item was all he could lay his hands on at the time!

I never met Tom, but he sounds like quite a character.

So in the scrapyard picture in the other thread, is the chassis already cut? seems reasonably long, but hard to tell.

As mentioned, the axle internals were not changed by choice, but of necessity. I don't know for certain whether the chassis had been cut by the time of the photo but think it unlikely otherwise John Butler would have mentioned it. When Tom got the remains the chassis had gone along with a lot of the other bits.

[DaveyC]

I understand the parts had to be replaced, I was just speculating on whether the ratio change was deliberate, or they just fitted what they had.

The story I got from Terry was that his Dad had seen this wagon in the scrapyard and tried to buy it there and then, but because it was at the bottom of a very large pile of scrap, the scrapman was unwilling to move it all just to release the wagon, so said that he would have to wait until the pile was being moved anyway.

So Tom went back again and again, year after year, until he came away with it, or what was left of it.

There still appears to be bits of the jigsaw missing though.

The picture shows some stuff on top of it, but not that much, and although I cant be too exact, I understood that this all went on in the seventies. So if the picture is dated 1965, then why did the scrapman not sell it to the photographer? presuming he saw it before Tom did.

If Tom HAD already seen it, then why carry on burying it? Or chop it up?

There must be some details still to come out of the woodwork, but I've learnt loads in the last week.

Thanks to all that have shared what they know, and for the photos.

[QLDriver]

For future reference, here's the link to the other thread: http://www.tractiontalkforum.com/showthread.php?t=36924

My impression of the scrapyard photo (repeated below for convenience) is that the wagon was effectively sticking out of the side of a large pile of scrap, and so while it was accessible to take a photo, it might have had many tons of scrap that would need removing to retrieve it. As Dad mentioned, John Butler tried to buy it at the time, but was unable to, and by the time Tom purchased the remains, the wagon had been much more heavily cut up.

One possibility to consider for a replacement steering box might be seeing if one could be fabricated from plate, instead of making new castings. From the photo, it's flat sided, and the curved part of it only curves in one direction. I know Julian Hopper in Kent has made some very complex fabrications in the past for other steam wagon projects. Obviously the worm and wheel (or worm and segment) are still a problem, but it might solve part of the issue.

[DaveyC]

'Tis a small world. The broken box that we have is with Julian Hopper as we speak!

As for making one from plate, another TT member has shared drawings from his 7" scale model with us, made from plate, so that may be an option too.

Things are starting to look a little brighter, the wagon has been off the road over 6 months now

[QLDriver]

Great! I would certainly suggest talking to him about making a new one... and to close the circle, Julian had his Sentinel S-type from John Butler, whose photo we have here!

[M_Walters]

Here are some details of the Fowler steering.

[QLDriver]

Interesting that the front crossmember and axle are both kinked to clear the boiler!

It certainly looks like the steering column and box would be quite feasible to reproduce, and wouldn't be tremendously expensive, as it uses a nut and thread (presumably Acme form), rather than worm and wheel.

[DaveyC]

Am I reading the drawing correctly?
It appears to me that the bottom of the column is unsupported, and that it hinges very slightly about the top mount?

[M_Walters]

Originally Posted by DaveyC

Am I reading the drawing correctly?
It appears to me that the bottom of the column is unsupported, and that it hinges very slightly about the top mount?

Yes, the bottom of the steering shaft has to float. If there was a bearing at the bottom end of the shaft the nut would require a slotted connection on the steering arm bell crank to allow the trunnion on the bell crank to move in an arc and the nut on the shaft to move in a straight line. An interesting concept that I was discussing with QL driver yesterday. This is very similar to the way that the steering on Yorkshire wagons was arranged before the introduction of the WG model.



This is not surprising since W.J.Lewin had left Yorkshire's to work for Fowlers.