What Kills Rallies?

[staffordshirechina]

On the plus side, some newer, smaller gatherings are flourishing. The informal pub gatherings are good. My nearest one, up in the Warrington/ North Cheshire area is a pleasant weekend. The main beneficiary seems to be the pub landlord who is prepared to give over his car park for the weekend, good for him!
That reminds me, are we about due another this autumn Clive?

[MBmtew]

I think this is a very interesting debate. The natural progression of things is of course that, without the money gained from the public returning year on year, then there won't be the funds to do the job again. This is unfortunately, from people I know who've had experiences, the odd thing about certain rallies these days. The money is wanted more than the enjoyment factor. I find it odd when I read these things about rallies expecting owners to be pleased to be invited, almost in the regard of 'allowing an engine to exhibit'. It has always been my feeling, wether my event is a miniature engine event or not, that every exhibit should be appreciated no matter what it is, as everything has its place. Every single exhibit that attends our small gathering, wether 1.5", 6", full size whatever is appreciated and gratefully received in the same way - as it should be. No event can operate without the full co-operation of the exhibitors and, as many have rightly pointed out above, the exhibitors are doing it as part of their hobby, in their spare time, using their money, fuel etc to attend and therefore we should be making them feel as appreciated and as welcome as possible. This is one thing I have always tried to do with every potential exhibitor of the MTEW event at Market Bosworth. I've exhibited at some places in the past myself and you never forget a bad experience and this will undoubtedly be the end of rallies in the future if the enjoyment factor of the hobby continues to be quashed by amassing greater funds and tightening up on H & S to the point of the insane. Don't get me wrong, the events need to make money otherwise you can't sustain the event or indeed improve by getting more bits in or advertising each year, but you should do your best if you can to not bite off the hand that feeds you and upset those that make the event possible...the exhibitors.

[ThetfordBlue]

You can have bad weather and you can have issues with the venue, both of which even the best of organisers can struggle to protect against.

I am in agreement with the theory that if everyone from the organiser to the section leaders and exhibitors does their bit and there's a happy atmosphere then it will likely be a good event. Some organisers are business people and some are committees, well I've seen good and bad in both! A good business person can run a good rally, just as they can run good businesses with happy employees too.

[M4tty69]

Obviously I speak for a small percentage here but having been one of the public attending shows and now having purchased my engine I've been looking at exhibiting once it's done I have these things to say...

From a public point of view I have found that very few owners, both full size or miniature, seem willing to chat about their engines, most people I tried to talk to about their engine and the show and the scene in general just seemd annoyed at the fact I was bothering them and gave very blunt answers and tried to shut the conversation down ASAP and get on with sitting in their chair staring into space. Don't get me wrong, there were a select few that welcomed a nice conversation and loved telling me all about their pride and joy and the rallies ect. But the general feeling I got was that if you weren't an owner then you weren't worth talking to, if this is how all of the young people are treated then I can see why my friends all laugh at my love for steam and say 'it's for grumpy old men' I don't agree with my friends atall but I'm now seeing where they are coming from. That said, everyone on this forum seems to be very nice and I can't wait to meet a lot of you at the rallies I attend!

Now for the engine owner side of things...

Having been looking into next years shows and rallies and deciding which ones to attend I have noticed a pattern. A lot of rallies seem to put a cap on minimum size of engine that are allowed to move on site, a lot I have looked at say no smaller than 3" scale. Which in my eyes is stupid, the amount of 2" engines I see in old rally videos on the internet that I can't seat show snow is unbelievable, if anything I feel the organisers should be encouraging the miniature engine owners to attend instead of pushing them away and saying they can't use them for their intended purpose. That said there may be something that I'm unaware of that is making them do this? If anything the smaller engines are what the public can relate to more and it's more likely what they will be getting if they are considering an engine.

Anyways, that's my 2pence worth, being new to the forum I hope no one takes what I've said the wrong way!

[Triton]

Originally Posted by M4tty69

Obviously I speak for a small percentage here but having been one of the public attending shows and now having purchased my engine I've been looking at exhibiting once it's done I have these things to say...

From a public point of view I have found that very few owners, both full size or miniature, seem willing to chat about their engines, most people I tried to talk to about their engine and the show and the scene in general just seemd annoyed at the fact I was bothering them and gave very blunt answers and tried to shut the conversation down ASAP and get on with sitting in their chair staring into space. Don't get me wrong, there were a select few that welcomed a nice conversation and loved telling me all about their pride and joy and the rallies ect. But the general feeling I got was that if you weren't an owner then you weren't worth talking to, if this is how all of the young people are treated then I can see why my friends all laugh at my love for steam and say 'it's for grumpy old men' I don't agree with my friends atall but I'm now seeing where they are coming from. That said, everyone on this forum seems to be very nice and I can't wait to meet a lot of you at the rallies I attend!

Now for the engine owner side of things...

Having been looking into next years shows and rallies and deciding which ones to attend I have noticed a pattern. A lot of rallies seem to put a cap on minimum size of engine that are allowed to move on site, a lot I have looked at say no smaller than 3" scale. Which in my eyes is stupid, the amount of 2" engines I see in old rally videos on the internet that I can't seat show snow is unbelievable, if anything I feel the organisers should be encouraging the miniature engine owners to attend instead of pushing them away and saying they can't use them for their intended purpose. That said there may be something that I'm unaware of that is making them do this? If anything the smaller engines are what the public can relate to more and it's more likely what they will be getting if they are considering an engine.

Anyways, that's my 2pence worth, being new to the forum I hope no one takes what I've said the wrong way!

Hi, you have made some interesting comments. I was not personally aware that some rally organisers had a minimum engine size policy. In my opinion this is ludicrous, a live steam engine is a live steam engine irrespective of it's size. I must admit, I admire the smaller scales due to the engineering excellence which they embody and the fact that someone with a hell of a lot more skill than I will ever possess has built and operated a masterpiece of engineering. You may not be able to ride behind it especially if you are built as I am like a brick built outhouse! but it is still a pleasure to see these marvels of engineering in steam.

[rathopete]

Originally Posted by M4tty69

Obviously I speak for a small percentage here but having been one of the public attending shows and now having purchased my engine I've been looking at exhibiting once it's done I have these things to say...

From a public point of view I have found that very few owners, both full size or miniature, seem willing to chat about their engines, most people I tried to talk to about their engine and the show and the scene in general just seemd annoyed at the fact I was bothering them and gave very blunt answers and tried to shut the conversation down ASAP and get on with sitting in their chair staring into space. Don't get me wrong, there were a select few that welcomed a nice conversation and loved telling me all about their pride and joy and the rallies ect. But the general feeling I got was that if you weren't an owner then you weren't worth talking to, if this is how all of the young people are treated then I can see why my friends all laugh at my love for steam and say 'it's for grumpy old men' I don't agree with my friends atall but I'm now seeing where they are coming from. That said, everyone on this forum seems to be very nice and I can't wait to meet a lot of you at the rallies I attend!

Now for the engine owner side of things...

Having been looking into next years shows and rallies and deciding which ones to attend I have noticed a pattern. A lot of rallies seem to put a cap on minimum size of engine that are allowed to move on site, a lot I have looked at say no smaller than 3" scale. Which in my eyes is stupid, the amount of 2" engines I see in old rally videos on the internet that I can't seat show snow is unbelievable, if anything I feel the organisers should be encouraging the miniature engine owners to attend instead of pushing them away and saying they can't use them for their intended purpose. That said there may be something that I'm unaware of that is making them do this? If anything the smaller engines are what the public can relate to more and it's more likely what they will be getting if they are considering an engine.

Anyways, that's my 2pence worth, being new to the forum I hope no one takes what I've said the wrong way!

I too have a 2" engine, but I have never had any issue entering a rally due to it's size, perhaps that is due to the limited number of miniature on the rally scene in my area. I would say though that running a 2" from 10 in the morning ill 4 in the afternoon is not the same as steaming a 4" engine, it can be a challenge. I have attended rallies though where I felt organisers wouldn't have been bothered if I turned up or not and have chosen not to return.

The best rallies for me are the ones where I get to chat to lots of interesting folk, yes some times they have no idea about road steam but they are interested mostly. For example, a few weeks ago I spoke with a couple who had known Teddy Boston, had a great half hour chatting to them, gave a very interested chap a shot driving my engine and you could not believe the smile on his face, a lifetime ambition realised he said, took 5 minutes and caused me no grief at all.

One great thing about the miniatures, and the smaller ones in particular, is that children especially can see all the workings, the engines are approachable and the kids can physically see what everything is doing. Yes you get lots of comments about the cuteness of the little bits of coal and the wee bucket, but hey that is life.

When it comes to attending rallies I have to agree with you generally. I have had some good conversations with engine owners on occasions but often they seem to be unapproachable sat up on their engines and striking up any sort of conversation can be very hard. I appreciate that rallies are also social events for owners and that they have to enjoy themselves too, but a bit of chat with the public would help sustain a wider interest in our passion.

I only developed an interest in steam though attendance at rallies with my father as a kid and there are fewer and fewer folk left with memories of working steam, so perhaps it is inevitable that the number of rallies will fall in the future, as the number of folk who have a personal experience of steam diminishes??

[Radhew]

Originally Posted by M4tty69

From a public point of view I have found that very few owners, both full size or miniature, seem willing to chat about their engines, most people I tried to talk to about their engine and the show and the scene in general just seemd annoyed at the fact I was bothering them and gave very blunt answers and tried to shut the conversation down ASAP and get on with sitting in their chair staring into space.

I think Matt makes a well observed point.

Before I bought my engine, I had tried to engage engine-folk in a bit of "light conversation"; thoughtfully, in many cases engine-men had arranged a fortress of coal sacks and deck chairs to prevent me getting close to starting a conversation. Also, in many cases the "crew" comprised tattooed, moustachioed, rough-looking types, smoking and swearing heavily to put me off. And the men were no better.

Now, some years later, as an engine-owner, with good looks, raffish charm and easy conversation I clearly don't fit in. If only the NTET provided guidance to owners like myself on how to achieve the right degree of disinterest and surliness I would feel my membership money was well spent. Once again the NTET has let me down.

Come on General Council pull your fingers out!

[M4tty69]

Yes I was quite surprised too when I read the rules. Welland and woodcote are two that I can remember off the top of my head. Both of which were shows I'd have liked to attend but with my engine being a 2" showmans I'd want to be driving it rather than sitting in the model tent staring at it!

[edd]

I've been visiting a few shows this year as paying public as well as exhibiting at a few. The one thing that has struck me is how few exhibits (in all categories) have any information with them. Any that do have an information board or at least an A4 sheet receive a lot of attention from the public. Most people attending want to learn and like to look at photos and information. It would be nice to see more exhibits having a bit of information with them to not only encourage the public to learn about them but also to stop owners having to answer the same questions time and time again!

I'm sure the list of common questions is pretty much the same for all steam engine owners!

Ed

[Steam Scenes]

Originally Posted by edd

I've been visiting a few shows this year as paying public as well as exhibiting at a few. The one thing that has struck me is how few exhibits (in all categories) have any information with them. Any that do have an information board or at least an A4 sheet receive a lot of attention from the public. Most people attending want to learn and like to look at photos and information. It would be nice to see more exhibits having a bit of information with them to not only encourage the public to learn about them but also to stop owners having to answer the same questions time and time again!

I'm sure the list of common questions is pretty much the same for all steam engine owners!

Ed

I agree with this, but some owners do it really well with lots of information.

Maybe we could come up with a template that people could use, fill in the details about your exhibit, include some photographs, some standard text common to all steam exhibits and a printable display board is output at the end. We could do that on TT actually.