What Kills Rallies?

[Triton]

Originally Posted by Timothy Hackworth Jr

Tom Rolt Vintage Rally in the incarnation we ran it as was finished due to too many bad years of weather and no finances to sustain it.

Sadly, that can happen. However, if rally organisers kept a note of local weather conditions they MAY be able to time their rallies when there is a better chance of it being dry. Look at the number of muddy GDSF's there have been over recent years.

[Triton]

Originally Posted by mickval

I used to do 18 rallies per season and am now down to 12. the others having gone to that great Rally Field in the sky., and for most of the reasons listed above. Lack of footfall, Elf & Safety., Large Insurance premiums, poor weather, unsuitable fields, deaths of organisers/landowners. Too far to travel due to fuel costs Too much regimentation, do this ,do that, don't do that. Too expensive entry charges, some rallies now , a family of four needs at least £100 for the day. There's lots more reasons I suspect, but I don't suppose we will ever totally sort it out even though they rally scene is slowly diminishing.. I suspect it will all be finally down to individual clubs having a yearly do as my club and several more have., and the big rallies as we know em have all but gone.

Down here, Torbay is one of the best value for money rallies and that is probably why at 1130 on the last day (a Sunday) there was a long queue of visitors waiting to pay and get through the paygate. In my own case the costs were as follows, £8.00 in total for diesel to get there and back from home. £7.00 admission for myself as I am now 60 years old. £3.00 admission for my 17 year old grandson and £3.00 admission for my 15 year old granddaughter as 17 year olds and under get admitted at child rates. £2.00 for an excellent programme making a total of £23.00 for an absolutely great day out. Plus, we bought food etc and probably spent about a further £20 - £25 between us. Who can argue with that and there were around 7 engines which had not appeared at Torbay before out of 26 full sized engines which were on show.

That is why Torbay is the only Rally which I attend EVERY year.

[MBmtew]

I think this is a very interesting debate. The natural progression of things is of course that, without the money gained from the public returning year on year, then there won't be the funds to do the job again. This is unfortunately, from people I know who've had experiences, the odd thing about certain rallies these days. The money is wanted more than the enjoyment factor. I find it odd when I read these things about rallies expecting owners to be pleased to be invited, almost in the regard of 'allowing an engine to exhibit'. It has always been my feeling, wether my event is a miniature engine event or not, that every exhibit should be appreciated no matter what it is, as everything has its place. Every single exhibit that attends our small gathering, wether 1.5", 6", full size whatever is appreciated and gratefully received in the same way - as it should be. No event can operate without the full co-operation of the exhibitors and, as many have rightly pointed out above, the exhibitors are doing it as part of their hobby, in their spare time, using their money, fuel etc to attend and therefore we should be making them feel as appreciated and as welcome as possible. This is one thing I have always tried to do with every potential exhibitor of the MTEW event at Market Bosworth. I've exhibited at some places in the past myself and you never forget a bad experience and this will undoubtedly be the end of rallies in the future if the enjoyment factor of the hobby continues to be quashed by amassing greater funds and tightening up on H & S to the point of the insane. Don't get me wrong, the events need to make money otherwise you can't sustain the event or indeed improve by getting more bits in or advertising each year, but you should do your best if you can to not bite off the hand that feeds you and upset those that make the event possible...the exhibitors.

[ThetfordBlue]

You can have bad weather and you can have issues with the venue, both of which even the best of organisers can struggle to protect against.

I am in agreement with the theory that if everyone from the organiser to the section leaders and exhibitors does their bit and there's a happy atmosphere then it will likely be a good event. Some organisers are business people and some are committees, well I've seen good and bad in both! A good business person can run a good rally, just as they can run good businesses with happy employees too.

[M4tty69]

Obviously I speak for a small percentage here but having been one of the public attending shows and now having purchased my engine I've been looking at exhibiting once it's done I have these things to say...

From a public point of view I have found that very few owners, both full size or miniature, seem willing to chat about their engines, most people I tried to talk to about their engine and the show and the scene in general just seemd annoyed at the fact I was bothering them and gave very blunt answers and tried to shut the conversation down ASAP and get on with sitting in their chair staring into space. Don't get me wrong, there were a select few that welcomed a nice conversation and loved telling me all about their pride and joy and the rallies ect. But the general feeling I got was that if you weren't an owner then you weren't worth talking to, if this is how all of the young people are treated then I can see why my friends all laugh at my love for steam and say 'it's for grumpy old men' I don't agree with my friends atall but I'm now seeing where they are coming from. That said, everyone on this forum seems to be very nice and I can't wait to meet a lot of you at the rallies I attend!

Now for the engine owner side of things...

Having been looking into next years shows and rallies and deciding which ones to attend I have noticed a pattern. A lot of rallies seem to put a cap on minimum size of engine that are allowed to move on site, a lot I have looked at say no smaller than 3" scale. Which in my eyes is stupid, the amount of 2" engines I see in old rally videos on the internet that I can't seat show snow is unbelievable, if anything I feel the organisers should be encouraging the miniature engine owners to attend instead of pushing them away and saying they can't use them for their intended purpose. That said there may be something that I'm unaware of that is making them do this? If anything the smaller engines are what the public can relate to more and it's more likely what they will be getting if they are considering an engine.

Anyways, that's my 2pence worth, being new to the forum I hope no one takes what I've said the wrong way!

[Triton]

Originally Posted by M4tty69

Obviously I speak for a small percentage here but having been one of the public attending shows and now having purchased my engine I've been looking at exhibiting once it's done I have these things to say...

From a public point of view I have found that very few owners, both full size or miniature, seem willing to chat about their engines, most people I tried to talk to about their engine and the show and the scene in general just seemd annoyed at the fact I was bothering them and gave very blunt answers and tried to shut the conversation down ASAP and get on with sitting in their chair staring into space. Don't get me wrong, there were a select few that welcomed a nice conversation and loved telling me all about their pride and joy and the rallies ect. But the general feeling I got was that if you weren't an owner then you weren't worth talking to, if this is how all of the young people are treated then I can see why my friends all laugh at my love for steam and say 'it's for grumpy old men' I don't agree with my friends atall but I'm now seeing where they are coming from. That said, everyone on this forum seems to be very nice and I can't wait to meet a lot of you at the rallies I attend!

Now for the engine owner side of things...

Having been looking into next years shows and rallies and deciding which ones to attend I have noticed a pattern. A lot of rallies seem to put a cap on minimum size of engine that are allowed to move on site, a lot I have looked at say no smaller than 3" scale. Which in my eyes is stupid, the amount of 2" engines I see in old rally videos on the internet that I can't seat show snow is unbelievable, if anything I feel the organisers should be encouraging the miniature engine owners to attend instead of pushing them away and saying they can't use them for their intended purpose. That said there may be something that I'm unaware of that is making them do this? If anything the smaller engines are what the public can relate to more and it's more likely what they will be getting if they are considering an engine.

Anyways, that's my 2pence worth, being new to the forum I hope no one takes what I've said the wrong way!

Hi, you have made some interesting comments. I was not personally aware that some rally organisers had a minimum engine size policy. In my opinion this is ludicrous, a live steam engine is a live steam engine irrespective of it's size. I must admit, I admire the smaller scales due to the engineering excellence which they embody and the fact that someone with a hell of a lot more skill than I will ever possess has built and operated a masterpiece of engineering. You may not be able to ride behind it especially if you are built as I am like a brick built outhouse! but it is still a pleasure to see these marvels of engineering in steam.

[M4tty69]

Yes I was quite surprised too when I read the rules. Welland and woodcote are two that I can remember off the top of my head. Both of which were shows I'd have liked to attend but with my engine being a 2" showmans I'd want to be driving it rather than sitting in the model tent staring at it!

[mickval]

Matt, sorry to hear you have experienced several owners who have been rather curt, grumpy, and in a hurry to get rid of you. I, and most of my mates in the steam business are not like that, Yes there are a few grumpy sods about [I am72yrs by the way ] and I can certainly name a small few who are like that, but I and the majority are pleasant and friendly and only too willing to have a discussion about their engines and all things steam related.. Re the size ban, they do not operate that up here, there are a couple of rallies that do not encourage 4'' Fosters any more as they are like Cortinas were, everybody had got one. But apart from that all the rallies I attend are very friendly , this being mainly the East Midlands area.

[edd]

I've been visiting a few shows this year as paying public as well as exhibiting at a few. The one thing that has struck me is how few exhibits (in all categories) have any information with them. Any that do have an information board or at least an A4 sheet receive a lot of attention from the public. Most people attending want to learn and like to look at photos and information. It would be nice to see more exhibits having a bit of information with them to not only encourage the public to learn about them but also to stop owners having to answer the same questions time and time again!

I'm sure the list of common questions is pretty much the same for all steam engine owners!

Ed

[Steam Scenes]

Originally Posted by edd

I've been visiting a few shows this year as paying public as well as exhibiting at a few. The one thing that has struck me is how few exhibits (in all categories) have any information with them. Any that do have an information board or at least an A4 sheet receive a lot of attention from the public. Most people attending want to learn and like to look at photos and information. It would be nice to see more exhibits having a bit of information with them to not only encourage the public to learn about them but also to stop owners having to answer the same questions time and time again!

I'm sure the list of common questions is pretty much the same for all steam engine owners!

Ed

I agree with this, but some owners do it really well with lots of information.

Maybe we could come up with a template that people could use, fill in the details about your exhibit, include some photographs, some standard text common to all steam exhibits and a printable display board is output at the end. We could do that on TT actually.